Video: 2024-03-21 - The Doctor Was a Woman with Chris Enss (41 minutes)

Full Transcript of the Video:

So, tonight we have Chris Innes. Chris has been here many times to present with us. I don't think she needs much of an introduction. You'll introduce yourself probably as we go through the program. Come on up, Chris. Well, thanks everyone. Hi, I'm so glad to be back to talk with you this evening about my latest book, "The Doctor Was a Woman. " I wanted to mention though, first of all, you have no. . . I've been teaching Bible study here for over 30 years. You have no idea how many generation of fowlers I have taught. I mean, I'm now teaching the kids of the kids that I taught. With Greg? And I want to mention the railroad museum. I probably should have gone up and mentioned something about what's happening at the railroad museum in July. I made a film in September called "Mr. Pettigrew. " And Mr. Pettigrew is the story of a gentleman who rides the rails. He's been a Civil War soldier. He's been injured. He rides the rails and ends up in this town called Nemesis. And it's just about this train town. And I play a prostitute. That's right, ladies and gentlemen. I play a saloon gal who rides the angel cloud in Nemesis. And so we're going to be showing that, I think it's July 19, at the railroad museum. And it's a fundraiser for the railroad museum. And so we'll be asking for donations when you come in. And hopefully we'll be able to have some of the actors there. Eric Roberts, who is Julia Roberts' brother who's been in a bunch of things. He was in it. Wyatt McCray, who is Joel McCray's grandson. Anybody remember Joel McCray? Yeah. Anyway, and then myself. You know how wonderful a film is if you've got to describe who all the people are before you actually go and see it. But I mean it was a lot of fun to make. And I'm just excited that it's going to be a fundraiser for the railroad museum. So anyway, I will probably make sure everybody knows about that way before. But it's July. So make sure that you set the date for that July 19. And I'm always thrilled to be able to come back here. You guys are so nice to put up with me every time. I come out with something new. Dan is probably like, again, leave us alone for crying out loud. Do something else. But I have written this book called "The Doctor Was a Woman. " It's about the first female physicians in the American West. We can go to that first slide there. I think it's the cover of the book. Yeah, there it is. I love this picture of these ladies. This is early. This must have been in the 1910s when they're finally being accepted into medical schools, but only female medical schools. In 1850s, so many women wanted to be physicians, but were not able to get into any of the medical schools like Harvard. If they were allowed to go into Harvard, the male students issued a decree that said any woman who deems themselves so unfeminine as to pursue this career, we are not going to be able to look upon you. So a curtain must be drawn between us and any females who come around. And that was Harvard in 1851. Things have gotten progressively worse for Harvard over the years. I just think that these women did amazing things. Some of the first types of medicine on the frontier coming west was called "Granny Remedies. " You didn't have a doctor in the wagon train with you. You had somebody who really subscribed to these things called "Granny Remedies. " Some of those things made sense. Like if you've got a cut or you've got a bird, if you took a moldy piece of cheese and you put it there, that kind of makes sense because you've got some penicillin there at work right now. But they also believe that if you gargled first thing in the morning with your own urine, it preserved the life of your teeth and gave you fresh smelling breath. That has to be a gag someone pulled on someone because I don't even know how they come up with that. But "Granny Remedies," I remember growing up in Missouri and my great grandmother would tell me things like, "If you've got a wart, you have to bury a dish towel under the porch. " It was that kind of thing. So finally women said, "I think that we would like to be able to pursue careers in medicine to be able to really know how to help people in need. " And so they applied to go to different schools and at first they were only allowed to be midwives. There was always going to be a need for midwives. Men didn't really want to get into that part of that practice. And so there was always going to be a need for women in there. But women said, "I want to do more. " And so they dared to go to some of these schools and pursue a career thinking that when they came west, they'd be able to have a practice and people would come to their practice, but nothing could have been further from the truth. Let's go to that first slide there and see. Is it the next one? The next one over? It's weak. It should be that. It's gotten right there, Dean. Yeah. This is from the Pennsylvania School of Medicine for Women. I love this. These ladies are working on a cadaver here. Some of these pictures are a little, you don't want to look at them when you're eating dinner. Let's just say that. But I like the fact that they were able to do this only at a women's college when they were able to do this. Later on, when women were, like in Harvard, for example, they would be called in to dissect, to a dissection class, and generally the men would make sure that they were dissecting male pelvises. Just to make these women nervous to say, "I'm not going to do this. I leave. " But they didn't do that. So here in this school, it was all women and they were able to do what they needed to do. Now, I love this next one because. . . Back more. Yeah, too far. It's just that. One more. One more. That one right there. Isn't that sweet? You've been studying all day. You're tired. You're a little giddy. You want to get out of this school. And they just took a few moments just to be silly. I like that. I like that these women had. . . And they. . . Don't they all look like they're from the same family? I just like the camaraderie and the frivolity of, you know, we've been studying hard all day and this is what we're doing now. Let's go to that next one. Oh, that. . . She's right there. That way. Right there. There we go. This is Dr. Sophie Herzog. And out of all the ladies I wrote about in the book, she's one of my favorite. I'm probably going to say that at least 12 times. So bear with me. But I really like Sophie Herzog. She was this phenomenal doctor in Rosoria, Texas. She was. . . She's from Austria. Her husband was in Austria. He became a physician, moved to New York. So he could have a practice there. She really loves that whole idea of being a physician, becomes a midwife. They have several children. Her husband passes away and she decides that she is going to move with one of her older daughters to Texas and become a physician while she's there. And she does so. And that was in the late 1880s, early 90s, early 1890s. And she becomes the foremost authority on treating gunshot wound victims. What made her so phenomenal is because in the old west, if you were shot, if the bullet didn't kill you outright, what did kill you was the doctor probing in to remove that bullet. Dr. Sophie, if you were shot below the heart and above the knee, she would take the patient dead. She would tie a rope around her legs, tie a rope around her upper torso, flip them upside down, tie them to a pole above the bed and leave them hanging there upside down. Now, she hoped, and it always worked out like this, that gravity would take effect. And after a little while, that bullet would work its way to the surface of the injury and she would come right in and pull that bullet out. She did it so often, she was so successful, she had a necklace made of all the bullets. And when she dies, she's buried with that necklace. But everybody who was shot within the area of brassorial that thought, "Oh my stars, I'm going to die," they went to the doctor. And then with that treatment, you felt like you were dying. Let me get to the next one. What was amazing about her little, it's that picture right there. What was amazing about, there it is, her waiting room was a museum. She loved history. So she filled the museum with all of these glass cases and all of the books about history that you could find. So when you go in to wait, if you got shot and you had time to read, you could go in and you could learn about the history from Australia to Texas. From Australia to Texas. She was a fascinating woman. She had a lot of taxidermy in her office too. And so it was not a boring time when you went to go see Dr. Sophie Herzog. She eventually becomes, do I have any other pictures of her? What else do I have of her? Oh yeah, that's a lovely picture of her in her little Russian or little Austrian garden there. She eventually becomes a physician for the railroad. The railroad is right there in Bizouria. I love that. Look at that hat. It's a jaunty little hat. She was just a classy lady. But obviously, a woman I like, obviously a potato-based diet. So I love that. But anyway, she becomes a doctor for the railroad. The railroad goes right through Bizouria. They need physicians for the railroad. Lots of people who are laying the tracks and surveying the land get hurt. And they need someone to go out. And so if something happened, no matter what time of the night it was, she would go out and get on one of those little hand carts and move the hand cart right on down the trail to where someone was hurt and take care of them. And when the railroad mobiles, who were really in charge of everything, found out that she was the reigning physician, they said, "We're going to give you a chance to get out of this. We know that that's really kind of not something that women should be seeing. " She said, "No, I'm fine. Thank you. " She kept her job for 25 years, working for the railroad. Phenomenal woman. This next lady, oh, there it is. That's the Bizouria, Texas, her hand cart is. . . No, that's the caboose. But her hand cart was usually parked right in front of the depot. So she'd go right there and then just by herself. She looked like a lady who could do that by herself. They'd just get where she was going. But that was the depot there in Bizouria. So she saved lots of lives. She was very beloved in the area. They have a wonderful plaque dedicated specifically to her at the depot and her work. Now this lady here, Dr. Lillie Adhea, she was a fascinating woman too. She is a physician in Rawlins, Wyoming. You think that you're going to be able to. . . "These women had this idea that I'm going to go west. I'm going to be able to start a practice. " There's not a lot of doctors out there. Certainly someone will come to me. No one did that. They wouldn't do that unless you could prove that you could cure someone's paw or their chickens. Unless you could do something for an animal and do it successfully, then we can trust you with family members. Dr. Lillie Adhea is a doctor in Rawlins, Wyoming. She's unable to have her own practice at the time because no one will sell any women any medical supplies. So she decides she's going to work with another doctor. So this other doctor doesn't want to take the next case that I'm going to show you a picture of. This gentleman worked with a rover. His name was George Webb. Let me tell you about George. George doesn't want to live anymore. He takes a shotgun and puts it under his chin and fires. It doesn't kill him. It just blows his face apart. Lillie, this too again is not something you want to talk about over dinner. But Lillie is the first woman to do plastic surgery in the old west. She stitches his whole face back together. Now I want to tell you that after each one of the chapters that are right about these ladies, there is their medical paper. So you will find Dr. Lillie Adhea's medical paper about how she stitched this man back together. You will find Dr. Sophie Herzog's medical paper about removal of bullets. So it's a great book if you just want to read it and then possibly perform your own surgeries at home. Get up the tools now to do that. This is Dr. Eliza Cook. She was one of the first physicians in Nevada. I think she's a really striking young woman. She was almost six feet tall. That was really unusual in the old west to have a woman that tall. She was quite beloved in the area. She was a physician and people didn't start taking their children to her until someone's child almost died from a cow. Well, no, the baby did die. But there was a cow that they were getting the milk from and the cow had gotten into some poisonous weeds. And they gave it to the baby and the baby died. But they brought the baby to Eliza Cook for help. And that's when she said, "Listen, I'm doing everything I can. He's not going to make it. " From now on, don't give your baby that kind of milk. Come in here and I'll get you canned milk, but you can't do this. And that couple went on to have other children and she treated all of the other children. But she was just this amazing physician. And finally, I love the little picture of her house there. She's able to build this. That's her at the front of her house. Tall lady. That's right there in Genoa, I think it's Genoa in Nevada. I love that. And that house is still there too. And they have a plaque there commemorating Dr. Cook's practice. I love that. I love whenever you can point out what these phenomenal women did. And you can go and stand there and know, wow, she had so many patients coming into her home. Because that really upstairs window, that was the operating room. She delivered a lot of babies there. It may not be there now. Maybe they didn't take care of it. A lot of times they just kind of let things go to ruin. Because there are some city planners who just say no one cares anything about history. And if that's the case, then everything goes to ruin. So, let's go to the next one. This is Dr. Jenny Murphy. There's no other better picture of her. Doesn't she look like a China doll that's been broken, dropped on her head? Jenny Murphy was a Yankton, South Dakota doctor. And what was phenomenal about her is she made house calls. Now, it's not house calls like you think. She was in Yankton, South Dakota and frequently made house calls into Nebraska. Men would come over and they'd say, my wife is having a baby. There's complications. You've got to go with me. She would go with them and even ford a river to get to these frozen rivers. To get to the patients. And she was very successful and people loved her too. What I thought was amazing about her is she wants to get ready to go to college to be a doctor. And so she becomes one of the first teachers in Brookings, South Dakota. And there's a terrible winter storm when the children are there. And there must have been 17, 18 children that's in the book too. And they're all going to perish, freezing to death. There's no wood. There's no anything. But for Jenny Murphy, having this desire to be a physician, having read all these medical books, she was able to keep those children warm and keep them from getting frosted. And so she becomes a heroine in the area right after that. And is able then to go on to be this phenomenal doctor. And she studies cardiac problems in children. Children who have anxiety. Because children in the old west, they only went to school three months out of the year. The rest of the time they were worker bees. They worked. That was their jobs. They had duties. School was a privilege. And so she got to see all these children who came in who would be anxious about the fact that, "I gotta get out of here. I gotta go to the field. " And she would notice how that had an effect on their little hearts. And so she was quite in tune to that. And what was fascinating about her too is that she, after medical school, she comes back to her family's house because she's not feeling well and is diagnosed with tuberculosis. But she reads up on tuberculosis and physicians heal myself. And by the end of the summer resting, the touch of tuberculosis is gone. And she's able to go on with her trade. Do I have another picture of her? Okay, I don't. I don't. I thought I did. This is Emma French. Now, Dr. Emma French was a Mormon lady. She came west with the Mormon hand cart movement. Anybody aware of the Mormon hand cart movement? It's fascinating. They were called to Zion. And Zion was in the Utah area, but they didn't have any money to give these people for, for wagons or anything like that. And so they were told to just load up what they have on hand carts and just pull that, pull or push that hand cart all the way from the Missouri area or the Illinois area into Utah. Now, Mormon families were big families. Maybe the gentleman would have nine, ten wives. So out of that, you had to have someone who was a doctor. So someone had to step up and say, "I will go and learn how to be a doctor and come back and teach other women how to be a physician. " That was Emma French's job. She goes away. She learns how to become a physician. She ends up, her husband is part of the mountain meadow massacre. He's one of the instigators of that horrific thing that happened. And he's arrested and taken away. And she's got to figure out what she's going to do with her life. And she takes her children and they move to Winslow, Arizona where she becomes the foremost surgeon for all the railroads. So any drunk guy that's laying on the railroad track that gets his arm run over, she's the one that made sure that it was amputated correctly and that they could move on with their lives. Prior to that, they would just let these guys die. Just another curvy gal. I like her. Next lady is Fannie Quayne. What's the name of Bessie? Oh, sorry, Dr. Bessie Ether. I don't know why I have Fannie Quayne. Talk about Bessie Ether. Talk about a woman who really had to struggle to be a physician. She goes to a place called Carpenter, Wyoming. There's no one there. She has always wanted to be a doctor, finally gets her degree as a doctor and is hoping to be able to establish her own practice in the East. No one will let her because she's a woman. So she goes west to Wyoming where there is a need of a physician and she has to take her nieces with her because her brother and sister-in-law have died. So she goes there to start her life in Carpenter, Wyoming and when she gets there, there's nothing. There's her house and there's the ranches very far away. She's hoping that people will come and really ask her for help, and no one does. It's too far away. Finally, a gentleman knocks on her door very late at night and says, "Doctor, you've got to help me. Here's what's wrong with my horse. " He's very ill. And he tells her the story and she says, "I think he has colic. " But I don't know. I'm not a horse doctor. He says, "Please give me medicine. " She said, "Well, I have something here. " Again, these women never were able to purchase any of the medicine. They had to be their own pharmacy. So they had to know how to create their own medicine and they did that. And so she had her own remedy for colic and she said, "I can give you this. I guess you've got to multiply the dose by 10. I don't know what you do. But if it goes wrong, don't blame me. " And he's desperate. But you've got to know, if you have a horse in the old west, that is your life. That's why stealing a horse was so serious. You took away a person's livelihood. So this guy goes home. He gives this horse this treatment. The next morning, he's pounding on the door. She answers it and she says, "So?" And he said, "My horse is fine. Thank you. Here's my wife and my sons. " [Laughter] Then her practice starts to flourish. But only after that. This next picture is of Carpenter. And you can see there's nothing. There's nothing there. And that's later on in her stay. I mean, she gets there in late 1890s. This is really 1905, 1906. There's still nothing there. But these women had to be really adept at being able to make their own products. I think there's no. . . Here's the next one. Dr. Bethany Owen Zadair. Now, fascinating woman. Married to a gentleman. They have a son. He is running around on her. He takes her money. He smacks her around on her. Finally, she has had enough and says, "Get out. I'm going to go to medical school. " She goes to medical school, learns everything that she can possibly do. She gets several degrees in a variety of different medicines. One of them is in pediatrics. Because she really has a heart for children. And more than that, she has a heart for women. So she really studies the ailments of women. And one of the things that she notices out in the West where she's at, she's in Oregon. One of the things that she notices is that the infant mortality rate is pretty great. Some of these women are having children. They're having 13, 14, 15 children. And a lot of these children are dying. And these women aren't very healthy after that many kids either. So she's frustrated because these women don't want to have that many children. But, as I told you before, this is your workforce. We're your baseball team. However you look at it. But having that many kids were the people that were going to do the work. But she's very frustrated at seeing these women like this. And so she's one of the very first female doctors to come up with birth control. Birth control measures. She calls it human sterilization, which is really frowned upon. Churches frowned upon that. She shouldn't have called it that. But she really was quite good at what she did. And when it was slow periods at her doctor's office, she made hats. That was her hat that she made. So if you came into her office and you really didn't have anything wrong with you, if you're a woman and you just wanted a hat, we can fix you up. Leave her feeling like a new woman. Okay, what's the next link that we have? This is Fannie Quay. Now, many of these women were spurred on to find out what they wanted to do in the field of medicine because they had seen something horrific in their own personal life. And Fannie was one of those people. Fannie's mother had tuberculosis. And when Fannie was 10, she watched her mother dying of tuberculosis and nobody able to do anything. And Fannie decided, "I'm going to be that one that does something. " And she does. She goes to school and she learns everything about tuberculosis that there is to know and opens up in Nebraska several sanitariums for tuberculosis patients. And in the back of the book, you'll see one of her papers about how to treat tuberculosis and what you need to do with tuberculosis. She, too, was a railroad doctor. I'm amazed at how many women became physicians for the railroads because men just didn't want to have anything to do with that. But women found out that that was a good place for them to get a regular job and so they did it. And so she treated a lot of the men who were hurt and many of them who had tuberculosis, and they didn't see them to her sanitariums. Many people became better after being in her sanitarium. The whole time I'm writing this, I'm thinking about Doc Holliday because he was around at that time. It's too bad the sap didn't go there. But anyway. Okay. Next up. Now, this is Harriet Beecher. Is she wonderful or what? She doesn't have a horse and bucket to get around where she's going. She goes about on a bicycle and she's the most beloved doctor in Santa Barbara. Now, she is working in Rhode Island as an assistant to a doctor, but once her own practice, again, can't do that. The east comes west, comes to Santa Barbara to become a physician. And while she's there, she finds out she's not feeling very well and she diagnosed herself with malaria. And then spends the rest of her life trying to find a cure for her own malaria while she's helping other people. She too goes on these amazing, and she doesn't do this on a bicycle, but she has to go up into the mountains and she has to get on wagon trains that take you way up in the mountains where they have to take off the wheels, pull the wagon up one side of the mountain, then lower it down the next to get to patients. But she was just another one of these ladies who decided that she was really going to concentrate too on women. And she was one of the foremost physicians in the American frontier who worked with breast cancer and was able to help women and even did some aseptivies in her time. I know you wouldn't think that would be possible, but that's what those ladies did. That was Harriet Beecher too. We just talked about Harriet. We don't want to talk about Harriet again, but that's another picture. Dr. Helen McKnight, that woman that I told you about, they called her in. She was at Harvard. She was one of the women at Harvard that they called in in a dissection class. And when she gets there, it's the pelvis of a man. So all these men are standing around waiting for her to panic and not do the job. She pulls the sheet back and does the job and shuts them all up. And so she becomes the foremost authority and physician who treats typhoid fever. And that is because she watched her grandmother die of typhoid fever and nobody able to help her. Okay, now I have Dr. Pratt. Oh, yeah. This is another Mormon lady. As a matter of fact, she was the first female physician in Utah, the very first one, Dr. Pratt. She is married to a gentleman who really liked making sure that women were educated. And so I was very happy to let Dr. Pratt go and get the study that she needs. And she's 33 when she goes to study medicine in 1873. And when she comes out, she is the foremost authority in that particular area on diseases of the eye. So many people were having trouble with eyes, with their eyesight and going blind. And she figured out a lot of it had to do with hygiene. And so she went about educating people on how to take care of your eyes. And again, one of her papers in back, you just come and look at one of those papers because that is hilarious to me. One of them is, "Don't read in bed. " But she had a different idea for things. And again, one of these women, and I think that it was Dr. Efner, she too was, she knew all about the flu and was helpful during the flu epidemic in 1918, 1919, 1920. And so if you read her paper on how to treat the flu, you could put over that COVID. And it all reads the same. It reads the same. Okay, this lady here, I think, needs to be celebrated. And we need to do whatever we can to make sure that she's got a plaque to commemorate who she is. She is, she was a nurse, Nurse Elizabeth Watson. And Nurse Elizabeth Watson began her practice here in 1904. She wanted to be a doctor, but again, no one would sell her when she got her degree and came out to the North San Juan area to be a physician, no one would sell her any of the products. And so she came up with her own list of cough medicine remedies. She'd mix up her own batch. Toothpaste, she was good at being able to do toothpaste. In the book you'll see several of her recipes. So from cough medicine to diarrhea. So, you know, go home and test those out, folks. But she was really great. She, in 1910, builds the Nevada City Sanitarium. It was the first and only hospital in this area. It's open until 1945 when she retires. This is just a look at some of the flu patients. But she was, she was just, she welcomed, she delivered, I don't know how many countless babies. What's that? My sister. See, she delivered countless babies and was just known throughout several, Placer County, Nevada County, Sutter County. She was somebody that you would go to. She was quite beloved in this area. And if we need to celebrate anybody, we need to celebrate her. She needs to have something saying she did this in a day and age when women were not allowed to do that. And just a phenomenal woman. I like this picture because this is what, again, you weren't going to see any men helping out with any of these flu patients. You saw only, only women doing this. And so, that was in Nebraska. I got the pictures a little mixed up. What else do we have over here? Anything else good? Well, that's, that's the same picture, but without my stuff on the front. All those women, I love their little ties. Just watching. What's going on? Does anybody have any questions? Comments? Any of their own home remedies they'd like to share? As I said, these women just really braved the frontier and really put themselves in a position where, if you were someone that practiced medicine, if you were the one that practiced medicine in San Francisco at a certain time in history, you had to make sure that you were dressed like a man if you went out to call on any of your patients. Because if they found you as a woman, doctor, treating anyone, you were beaten. So, we really kind of, we really kind of advanced. Don't you think? Yes? I was the vice chair of Altavate's Medical Center in Berkeley. Altavate's was a midwife who started that hospital. That's why it's an end-day. Yes, see, that's amazing. And what's so funny is there's nothing to commemorate Dr. Watson, nurse Watson here at all. We need to have something for her. Is it gentlemen? We need to have something for her. Anybody else have any questions? Any, any, I've got copies of the book in the back. I have a question for us. Yes? In those remote places, were they making their medication out of natural substances if they didn't have raw materials or how did that work? They were. They absolutely were. They would find herbs. A lot of times they would befriend Native Americans. And the Native Americans had some cures that really made sense. And so they would combine it with a bunch of different things and they would test it. I mean, they had plenty of time. They had no patients. So they had plenty of time. They weren't going to get all out. So being able to come up, because a lot of these women, one of the women in the book, I don't have a picture up here, was the first woman dentist in the world. She was Lucy Hobbs. And Lucy Hobbs, when she wasn't going to need patients, she would put together her own toothpaste. Because she knew that health problems were associated with some teeth. And so they would come up with whatever mixture they could come up with. One of Lucy's paper that I have in the back there in the book is "Removing Teeth with a File. " No one wanted to hire her as a dentist. So how she gets her start in the business is she creates wooden dentures and then enters them into county fairs. And wins numerous blue ribbons for her dentures. And so when the dentists are like, "Wait a second. This is great. " So that's how that would start. She does such an amazing business as a dentist that her husband sees this. And her husband was a businessman and he said, "I'm not going to do this anymore. I think I'll be a dentist too. " And so they have a joint practice and they move from the west to Chicago where they have a thriving practice for a number of years. Anybody else have any questions? Yes. Were any of these women successful financially? Lucy was. Lucy Hopps was quite successful financially. I don't think that any of them were really making a lot of money off of her because you didn't get paid in cash. You had lots of chickens. You had lots of jam. You got paid that way. And if that's what you wanted, if that was your career, you took that. I mean, the story about Bessie Efner I think is really one that is one of my favorite too because it's about not making any money and she had these children. But she was able to keep them fed because people brought them food. But being able to keep them enclosed was another thing. So, yes. When were women able to go to medical school and then come out and practice? Just like a man. I mean, I know it didn't have a clue. You know, according to the information that I've been able to see, it didn't really go well for them until the 1950s. Didn't really go well for them until the 1950s. They wanted them to be in their own separate thing. You don't want to be around you. This is not a career for a woman. You can be a nurse, but this, this is too much. We were raised in New Orleans though and in the '40s, of course, her husband went to war so she is a doctor who took over his practice. Of course. And he was very well accepted. Yeah. Right. Yes. My grandfather graduated medical school by 1850, came across an alignment training as a medical doctor. But I don't know anything about his undergraduate. Did they have to do an undergraduate degree and how long were they in medical school? You went to medical school for three years. Your fourth year was apprenticing somewhere. Was flying your train somewhere, working in a hospital, working somewhere like that. And it was three years because you couldn't really afford to stay in there for any longer. I mean, the Mormon ladies, Brigham Young, would make sure that they had money to go. And these women would stay there the whole time and didn't come back to see their children. By the time they were back to see their children after the degree, their kids were, they didn't even really know them, especially the little ones. So, yeah, it was, and they didn't have the money so they worked all the time. So you were working in addition to going to school all the time. Anybody else have any questions? Thank you guys so very much. I've got books in the back. And I have apples. And you know why? [laughter]